Stats?

So as of right meow, we have some kind of stat system and PvP system going on in the works. Trever is working on it right now and has been talking with me about it. Now this isn't going to be a 100% must happen. In fact if it turns out to be a complete flop, we'll take it out. But for the moment, it is just in a trail thing and I would like for everyone (when the draft is done) to at least trying it out. We'll be holding an event soon, A Tournament, to try the system out. However, before we even do that, I would like for everyone to give me their thoughts on the stats. If more than half want to at least try it out, we'll try it out. If not, then I guess we won't bother with it.

I personally want to see this thing in action. So my vote is to at least give it a shot.

i'm in favor of not using the stats, though there's a good chance it could work. One of the biggest reasons i'd prefer not to use stats is because it defines what you can and can't do. Like someone who is better stat wise in both strength and defense will always overcome someone who isn't as good in those regards. A lot of what happens here is situational, such as environment, time of day, level of surprise, and physical health to name a few. If we'd want to incorporate those into the stats, there'd have to be definitions of what terrain does what, what stat bonuses or detriments there would be, and it just seems really complicated. add onto the fact that stats could lead to dice rolls to determine hit ability and damage, I just feel that it would be way too much work and would be a deterrent to prospective players. Of course, i'm also biased in the fact that it seems very D&D with stats and what could happen, and i'm not big on going that route. But that's just me, my two cents. I would prefer not to hear the ins and outs of the stat system or anyone assuring me that the stats won't work the way I laid it out. I know they probably won't. but that's just the feel I get, is all.

As a long term DnD player, I understand the appeal of a numerical system for determining abilities and the like, but I tend to agree with Ishia about not really wanting it in my roleplay.
Now, since I don't want to beat that topic, I wanted to bring up a different concern I have. I've seen a lot of sites use a stat advancing system based on number of posts, and I personally find that concept to be toxic. The simple end of it is that it hates on new players, who will join, post a few times, then realize they will *never* be as good as a long term player. I've participated in these systems, and it just dosen't feel good as the new guy who has to wade through all the rules just to find out they're going to be treated like a newb for their fist six months.

I just got home from work, I'll likely come back in to explain more in depth. But for right now, I've taken as much as I can into consideration to make a simple, easy, and FUN system.

Maybe it isn't as complicated as Ishia's suggestions, I personally think no stat system can really go that deep...but also I'd like to name a time a non advanced roleplayer has even gotten that deep. Even WITH that freedom of understanding certain situations, I know a lot of people here wouldn't think to limit themselves based on the weather or because they caught the common cold. No one does that on a normal day basis. No one goes out of their way to purposely lose, or find reasons to handicap themselves, unless they are a good roleplayer. If you want a pre-written cinematic battle between two characters to take place, by all means. But I think some fights need some flavor when you want to actually, you know, fight. I don't see the point in fighting anyone when you know, well someone has to lose eventually right? And why should either party give up? I'd personally like to see actual, interesting, strategical, no nonsense fighting around here. That to me, and again; my opinion, is a lot more fun.

Cos no, really. When was the last time someone slipped in muddy terrain mid battle because they knew their character didn't put on their boots with good traction that morning? C'mon. I haven't even done that, I really wouldn't expect someone else to. That's something a really good roleplayer thinks about. And why should good roleplayers be punished by thinking of their own demises? To me that isn't fair.


As for Strix's comment on being the new guy around here, that's something I haven't really thought about or took into consideration honestly. I'll keep it in mind, because if I may be so bold, I am the sort of guy that will figure it out if that's what everyone wants. But I personally think that senior member superiority is, well, fair. I've been the old guy, I've been the new guy. Sometimes I think it's rewarding in both cases actually, depending how well the site is done. It doesn't bother me that new people come in and have to climb the ladder, everyone was there once. There are many sites where people frequent and make new characters and work themselves up over and over again. I don't think a stat system brings any less appeal, if done well. It of course, also has to be someone's cup of tea to begin with.

Am I vain enough to think I can solve everything? Not really. I don't have the perfect system, but it needs to be trialed and given time and patience. That's all I ask of anyone here reading this topic. We're never going to have something good unless we keep going through trial and error. Some people on the site want stats here, and I want to accommodate those needs and even more so I want to show the naysayers that it can be a good idea. More importantly, I want everyone to look at my system and think it is fun. I simply will not be satisfied unless everyone else is, so thus this is a work in progress that is for everyone, not just the number junkies.

And since I went into this a lot more than I was going to, I will also state that I've come up with a way to do the numbers...without dice. I know dice has always freaked people out here in the past, so I made something that works simply without them. And I think it indeed, does work. So that's just one disclaimer to the mention of dice. If they are unwanted, that's fine. The system will work with or without them with ease in either case.

Again, the system is something that's very simple. I'm not crowding people with values and numbers and adding and subtracting. I think it could be a fun system for those who want a little more of a varying, rewarding, and competitive experience.

Well, I *do* feel like you've summed up our argument rather well in your repeated points about how a good roleplayer would consider these things, and can even enjoy losing(because everyone has to lose). And since this *is* a roleplay site..
But, I won't dwell on that, as you've made me realize something else. I think it might solve all our issues to simply have sub threads labeled with weather they're stat or roleplay based. No reason to force the issue, and then new players can start posting as soon as they join without missing out on the fantasy. It makes us a more open community, and it keeps everyone happy.
On a side note, I want to say that I'm looking forward to seeing the stat system you come up with, and I'm excited to try it out. New systems are always fun, and I have a lot of experience with game design and game testing, as I've been testing video games and tabletop systems for four years.

Trust me, I'm a roleplayer through thick and thin, I wouldn't want to limit anyone's experience here. I just feel sometimes fights need a little bit of structure, just so everyone's playing by the same rules and on an equal playing field (or as equal as the fight you do pick anyway, when looking at numbers). But I feel some roleplay fights are just done dirty by the people who simply play dirty. It doesn't really prove anything, getting your ass handed to you by someone who wanted to spam 3 attacks in one post, back flip off your body, then run away and make you work for that next hit because you're too proud to dodge any of those hits while they go through that word like it's water. Which honestly, I've never seen before myself, but I've always been uncomfortable with just straight fights with no real substance or rules. I think I partook in a pvp fight only once or twice in my entire rp career, and every time it just never felt right. That's just me though.

And absolutely agreed with your point. This system is by no means going to replace pvp as we know it, its just an official guideline and rule set for those who want it (if it works in the end anyway). Though admittedly if it does well, it might end up being the official rule set for all combat/PVP based events, so in that sense it would still be required (again though, if it works and people like it). But just as I welcome people to give this a shot, I have no issue with people playing out fights in their personal threads with others as they wish to. If someone staged out this one fight with another player, and they agree on exactly how it goes, then I think a roleplayer has every right to that. I don't want to limit anyone, I just want a fuller experience for those who just aren't into that sort of fighting flavor.

I'm really happy that you're willing and even excited to give it a shot though. It makes me beyond ecstatic, actually. It wont be perfect by any means, but I at least hope that it works out and is fun for everyone taking part. Glad to have an experienced tester on the site as well, that's not something you see everyday. I look forward to seeing you around in general. I'm a big D&D nerd myself.